Episode 22 - Myth of Talent Revisited

Discussion Open - 11 Comments

1. frielink on 5/23/08

   Hi Craig, I am just starting to explore and discover this wonderful community that you have created. Congratulations. And this podcast is the first one that I have listened to. I can hear that you are passionate about this topic, and as an aspiring and not-so-young-anymore photographer I found this very inspirational and motivating. Many thanks for taking the effort to podcasts these thoughts.

   Thanks, Barend
2. martijeffers on 5/23/08

   Hi Craig,

   Thank you so very much for revisiting and expanding this topic in your latest podcast. It really had an impact on me when I listened to it this morning. There are so many old beliefs that I still hold from my childhood that I know hold me back from things I want to do -- as I'm sure is true for so many of us who listened to the podcast. I really appreciate you taking the time to record this and share it with us all. Thank you for your inspiration!!
3. alexnail on 5/24/08

   Hi Craig,

   I thought this podcast was excellent. It is so true that we all put restrictions on ourselves which stop us from being creative, it takes character to go out of your comfort zone, which is something I rarely do! Perhaps I should start setting myself some new goals...

   As far as having "talent" goes I think the notion of some sort of natural ability is perfectly reasonable. I have an unidentical twin brother who had exactly the same experiences as me when we were growing up. Our abilities however vary wildly. Art always came naturally to me whilst my brother found that he was talented at creative writing (something that I just cant do).

   Whilst you can learn and teach yourself photography, and there is nothing to stop anyone from becoming a brilliant photographer, in my opinion, I think there will always be those for whom creativity comes more easily.

   Looking back at one of my best childhood friends who was an incredibly talented artist at a young age, his natural ability enabled him to be almost completely unrestricted with the art he created. I think this kind of freedom and natural ability is bound to affect both an individuals enjoyment of their art, as well as their ultimate success.

   I should add that I really say this without any evidence at all, it is a beleif of mine, but I think one that makes a bit of sense based on my limited experience.

   Alex
4. craigtanner on 5/24/08

   Hi Everybody,

   Thank you for being here and thank you for the kind words of support.

   Alex....a big part of the findings of research on experts has been that natural ability is much better for describing what a person will not do rather than what they will.... but not even very good at that. For instance, a man who is only 5'5" tall will "probably" never play center for and NBA basketball team but he may play point guard (Spud Williams is one example).

   The researchers also say precocity gets confused with being a marker for who will go on to be great.

   I have never denied natural ability or gift. In fact I write about it in my article The Myth of Talent. But I would personally take belief over natural ability any day of the week. I have seen people who had all kinds of natural ability who have that paired with a limited self concept....all of the natural ability in the world will not help these people because they can not regonize their own value.

   I have seen people who said over and over again on the Next Step workshops that they were not conceptual thinkers and after a little coaching and a small dose of belief turn right around and come up with concepts that were brilliant in their originality, economy, and execution. Now suddenly you have a person with a new belief system that better allows for creativity.

   Here is where we agree Alex.... the people who have it easiest are the ones who believe, love, are supported, practice deliberately, with great frequency and duration over many years and have precocity (natural ability). But researchers have time and again identified precocity as the least of these by far. That is why the research does not even include it in the three main ingredients of success in becoming an expert. I have included belief because I personally believe it is the mystery condition that allows for the internal yes! and determines motivation..... or in other words its the most important ingredient of all.

   And I respectfully disagree that you and your brother had the exact same experience. Can we know what goes on inside the mind of another human being even if they are our brother? By that I mean that most beliefs come from assertions we make to ourselves and accept as true. Most beliefs that people have can be traced back to one moment of accepting a limit and then, instead of conscious awareness of what that means it is allowed to play as a thought unchecked and then gets reinforced until it becomes a whole belief system and a major part of the story that people tell about themselves (which is nothing less than your identity). Your story about you and your brother in my awareness of reality is just that. A story you have acccepted to be true which includes two huge assumptions which can not be absolutely true. 1) That you had the exact same experience and 2) That you can not write creatively...that one is not even true on the face of it. I say that because you have written two of the more creative responses that have been posted in its history to this forum. That story, set of thoughts, belief is also doing real harm in your life.... its a limiting story you are telling about yourself in an area of your life (creativity) in which you desire to expand.

   Why spend another second of your life or consciousness adding to or defending this concept?

   History is full of people who were not only not gifted..... but challenged and went on to defy all of the "odds". These stories are in fact the stories that create some of the strongest emotional responses in human beings.... because it reminds us of a powerful truth that I believe we all know at an intuitive level... .we are only limited by what we accept to be true in our reality. I respectfully reject all of the limits you describe in your response :) :). And thank you again Alex for being here... you are inspiring me to think and you are giving me all of the content for next week's Podcast so I would say not only are you a creative writer you are inspiring me to be one!!!!....Craig

   "I refuse to accept undesirable circumstance as having final reality." Uell Andersen

   "My heroes were always the people in the room, .... maybe that's why I managed to pull it off on records. At the moment, I believe in the magic of the people around me. I never doubt them, and that's maybe where the power of belief becomes contagious, because people feel that." Daniel Lanois (world famous record producer and musician)

   .... (talking to a reporter about his documentary film "Here Is What Is" about how he has coaxed performances from musicians that the musicians themselves say are the best of their lives)
5. alexnail on 5/24/08

   Thanks Craig for continuing this discussion.

   I read most of your response with a smile on my face thinking "well, he's right there"!

   A challenging aspect of this topic is separating talent and belief, which seem to go hand in hand to a large extent. The naturally talented person may have a belief in themselves which is reinforced by what others tell them, whilst the "grafter" who may lack that inherent ability would often have to find that belief within themselves. Belief to me almost implies a personal quality in itself, something which is hard to teach or learn. I would have to agree that belief is far more important than any of the other qualities you mention but belief is not something most people (not myself at any rate) can pluck out of thin air. I’m sure many would wish for a “belief switch”.

   These topics are so important in photography, as in any art, which is why I follow them with such interest. I hope you will continue to offer your thoughts on the “why”s because they are equally if not more important than the “how”s.

   Alex
6. Unfoldingdrama on 5/30/08

   Hi Craig,

   Just a quick note to say thank you for an amazing podcast. I read your essay a couple of years ago and it really helped me get over a lot of hurdles I had with advancing my own work. This podcast helped to remind me of what is important. I was looking at the Photography of Trent Parke today (who happens to be from my home town) and just being amazed by his level of proficiency. It seems so out of reach, but your words just reminded me that it isn't, it just requires an amazing amount of hard work and constantly breaking your own barriers.

   Another Inspired Photographer
7. craigtanner on 5/30/08

   Hi Unfolding Drama,

   Thank you for your kind words of support. I am happy to hear this Podcast resonates with you!.... Sincerely, Craig
8. craigtanner on 5/30/08

   Hi Unfolding Drama,

   I just got back from a trip through Trent Parke's work and I may have a new favorite photographer. Unbelievable.... thank you for this inspiration!!! Here is a link to one of the many sites that feature Trent's work http://www.stillsgallery.com.au/.....Craig
9. Unfoldingdrama on 6/3/08

   Hi Craig,

   Thanks for that link, some amazing stuff there i hadn't seen before. There are also some great galleries over at http://www.in-public.com/

   Levi
10. Jim on 6/10/08

    Hi Craig,

    Thank you for that last podcast. I wanted to tell you that it has inspired me and helped me to come to terms with certain aspects of my life. There’s so much in there that doesn’t just apply to photography.

    Thanks, Jim.
11. TFerrell on 7/11/08

    Very Inspiring! It seems like over time lifes doors slowly close. Its nice to get some help kicking them back open. Thank you!

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Episode 21 - Depth of Field

Episode 23 - Questions and Answers 05